Fran: My first language was Spanish, and I come from an immigrant community where all the adults in my life were monolingual Spanish speakers.
In the Margin was founded because I saw the issues within my university and how it was treating students of color and queer students. I studied abroad and I saw what education could be and was like, “Oh shit, I’m not treated a certain way here.” So I led my senior class in discussions about EDI. We learned that language together and presented our concerns to the student body and the faculty in a letter, like the We See You White American Theatre letter, but in 2015 and 2016.
No one was prepared for that. There wasn’t a national conversation around it, so the faculty response was negative. They reprimanded us. Even though we had the best intentions, communicating to someone that they’re causing harm is a hard conversation for that person to receive.
It was a few years of not the best interactions. Unfortunately, we had to really phrase and present how we’re being harmed in a way that is almost palatable. We can’t be angry; we just have to state facts.
Now I’m trying to learn how can we show rage while contextualizing it in a way that can be consumed by a person who causes harm. We should have the right to be angry about these things and educate in the process.
The conversations are hard, and it’s challenging to find appropriate actions. But it’s not impossible. You need creativity. Who is more creative than a theatre group or a collective of artists to help lead those conversations toward a better understanding of the dynamics at play?
How do we find the opportunity and the bridge, as we talk about EDI, to make sure that we are including all of the Latine countries that are out there?
Richard: Who were some of your mentors, Fran?
Fran: One mentor is an improv legend named Amy Seeley, who is great at teaching students how to find themselves in their work. Dr. Caroline Mercier, my faculty advisor in undergrad, similarly encouraged students to pursue multiple interests to find what fits them best, and she diligently advocated for students. I would also include all my chorus directors because they all seem to double as life coaches, especially Dr. Daniel Afonso. He continues to be a role model of queer Latine excellence, dedication, and artistry.
Then of course, my mom, Adelaida Astorga Sanchez. She’s a single, immigrant parent who worked the land to raise her kids, so she is a huge influence. I always refer back to the question, “Would my mom feel comfortable here?” If the answer is “no,” then we need to work to be more inclusive and accommodating to the people in this space.
Richard: Let me ask you a question, Fran, that I have struggled with. Many of the stories and artists I connect with, just because of who I am, are probably more Mexican stories, yet our Central American, South American, and Caribbean siblings who are part of my organization sometimes feel left out. How do we find the opportunity and the bridge, as we talk about EDI, to make sure that we are including all of the Latine countries that are out there?
Fran: Something that I add to the acronym EDI is an “M” and an “A” to make it “MEDIA.” The “A” is for accessibility, because as someone who’s neurodivergent, that looks different for me. Making it a plan to make space for that is essential, whether it’s for your body or your mind or even your spirit.
But then the “M” is about the importance of approaching all of EDIA through a multicultural lens. Because the way I think about EDIA as an American is really different from how I think about EDIA as a Mexican or as a queer person. There are different challenges within each of the cultures. So multicultural to me means different cultures by region, but also by an individual person. Through my identities, how do I create space for everyone involved in the conversation to examine it through their different lenses?
I see a lot of value in a multicultural approach because we have a lot of things to work through as humanity.
International intergenerational dialogue within an affinity group is important and a good way for us to also learn how stories have been told within our community and how they’re going to be told within our community.
Richard: Don’t we, though? Even within, like you said, the various Latine cultures… Are we Latino, Latina, Latinx, Latine, Chicano, Indigenous?
Here within Sacramento, too, we struggle with our Latinos intergenerationally. I mean, like I said to you, my mom would not allow me to join the movement. “You Are American.” Now, I hear people in our community say, “What’s this ‘Latinx,’ ‘Latine’ stuff?”
So how do we build those bridges, Fran, from my generation to your generation?
Fran: I think through intergenerational art making—
Richard: I love that.
Fran: Involving young artists with older artists. International intergenerational dialogue within an affinity group is important and a good way for us to also learn how stories have been told within our community and how they’re going to be told within our community.
Richard: Let’s get some of that intergenerational art together. I have to start thinking about what Teatro Nagual can do with In the Margin, and I think that would be amazing.
Fran: I think we are already doing that because my play, Exhaustion Arroyo, is being produced, and Pano Roditis is taking part. You recommended Pano to originate the role of Chio, so it feels to me like Teatro Nagual is being represented by Pano.
Richard: Pano is amazing. He is passionate about social and environmental justice and became a trusted director and producer for Teatro Nagual. When I was asked by B Street Theatre’s artistic director, Lyndsay Burch, for someone to perform in the staged reading of Exhaustion Arroyo for In the Margin, Pano was a first choice. I’m glad he is working with you.
And thank you for saying that because that’s important to me. As I do the work that I do in the community organizing, it has helped me to also start organizing artists. We do have to organize ourselves as artists so that we can work together and stop competing with each other. There’s room for all of us at the table—all of our stories, all of our art disciplines.
Someone shared a phrase about theatre with me, and it has stuck with me. They said it is a place to demonstrate and hold socially unacceptable behavior in a socially acceptable manner.
Fran: I like that. What about the funding of that socially unacceptable behavior?
Richard: I have been trying to find solutions for funding sources for predominantly white institutions (PWIs) and the granting processes and applications that work in systemically racist ways. Many of our artists do not know how to navigate that, and as a result they stay underfunded. They are not able to produce their works, and it is not equitable. Part of what we have been trying to do is to change that here within Sacramento, to address those inequities so that we can meet artists where they are.
As I do the work that I do in the community organizing, it has helped me to also start organizing artists.
Fran: For In the Margin, we have had more success with grants when we were fiscally sponsored. I think that’s because our application came with a name of a more trusted white institution. Now we’re doing more work that we are producing with our own vision, and we haven’t gotten funding because there isn’t confidence in us.
Richard: Our fiscal agent is the Latino Center of Art and Culture, and we’ve been somewhat successful in our grant applications and endeavors with them as our fiscal sponsor. We are now filing for our own nonprofit status, which we are excited about. What I’m seeing, at least on my end, is many of the opportunities that were there for fiscally sponsored organizations seem to be moving away towards actual nonprofit organizations. We’ve missed out on a couple of opportunities as a result.
How have you all been faring with your general operating expenses, Fran?
Fran: All we’re missing is the money, because we’re doing work. We have hours and hours logged. We’re meeting our goals in the sense of generating paid work for artists, but that’s temporary. It would be great to get funding for the more consistent work that our core leadership does. But the challenge is, again, building that trust with granters.
The scope of our work is extensive considering that we’re not getting paid. I hope it’s just a matter of time. It’s a labor of love, but that can’t be sustained.
